Viewing Issue Simple Details Jump to Notes ] Wiki ] View Advanced ] Issue History ] Print ]
ID Category Severity Reproducibility Date Submitted Last Update
0007433 [DCSS] Upload: Maps and Vaults minor have not tried 2013-08-06 20:52 2014-03-10 20:59
Reporter KennySheep View Status public  
Assigned To sgrunt
Priority normal Resolution done  
Status resolved   Product Branch 0.13 ancient branch
Summary 0007433: Vaults for the main dungeon
Description Some vaults for D
Additional Information
Tags No tags attached.
Attached Files ? file icon float.des [^] (12,204 bytes) 2013-08-06 20:52 [Show Content]
? file icon large_themed.des [^] (8,126 bytes) 2013-08-06 20:52 [Show Content]
? file icon large_abstract.des [^] (1,765 bytes) 2013-08-06 20:53 [Show Content]
? file icon edited vaults.des [^] (19,479 bytes) 2013-08-07 20:25 [Show Content]

- Relationships

-  Notes
neil (administrator)
2013-08-06 23:32

I worry about the missing_parent vault and the chance of pain and distortion brand. Not only are they quite a bit more powerful than the others, but their flavour is different since those things are actually made by the gods in question, unlike (say) amulets of rage.
sgrunt (administrator)
2013-08-07 03:20

I haven't gone through these in great detail as yet, but some of them still need a great deal of work (a couple of them may never be usable at all). I don't mean to discourage you, but I hope looking through my first round of comments on these will help improve them:

church_of_the_atheists: a gratuitous feature rename is a bad idea, particularly if there's no description to go with it.
demon_hangout: the demonspawn monster isn't really meant to be used as a regular enemy; I would stick with just the demons.
ogre_elephant_herders: as far as I can tell, there isn't an altar (so the KMONS and KFEAT lines are unnecessary) and you only have two monster placements (so the ", ogre, ogre mage") is unnecessary.
spore_jar: having fungi be sealed in is a bad idea - given the teleport trap, the entire level will eventually become polluted without an unprepared player having the means to clear it out. I do not think this is a concept which will ever be workable.
face: eyes and giant orange brains fly, so the shaft traps are completely pointless.
the_goblin_king: perhaps have a chance of placing Ijyb instead of a hobgoblin on D:2-? (KMONS: 1 = hobgoblin / Ijyb, hobgoblin ... KMONS: 2 = goblin)
googly_eyes: see previous note about shaft traps.
yak_hideout: I am not sure if the yaks are supposed to be consistently sealed in or not; it's too randomised for me to be able to tell. In any case, siccing a yak pack on the player on D:5 is too out-of-depth - perhaps this can be reworked into something to place in Lair?
phantopolis: way, way, way overboard with the fog.
treasure_room: three 8s on D:3 is overkill, runed door and glass or no, and the loot is pathetic for that level of challenge; you need either more loot, better loot, or both, and to either increase the depth or replace the loot/monsters with something less overwhelming at low depths.
four_rooms: see previous about loot; an 8 on D:5 is going to be too lethal, so see previous note about depth.
alarming_item: with the trap as it is, this is an autoexplore trap - at least make the trap known (cf. grunt_tough_drop).
murder_the_trees: a guaranteed wand of fire as early as D:5 is ... inadvisable.
demon_jail: the amount of loot this has doesn't correspond to the challenge it would pose.
bagend: as with murder_the_trees, I don't like the idea of guaranteeing a very good item (here, the ring of invisibility) as early as D:3. I also don't know what you're trying to accomplish with the z in the final room of the vault, or with all of the empty space in the rooms (other than for purely cosmetic purposes).
digestion: large, full of dangerous monsters (possibly placing multiple acid blobs as early as D:17), and completely bereft of loot? Why?
forest_fire: there's probably a way to do this without generating orc knights with guaranteed plate of rF+ and wands of fire, e.g. using more efreets or other fire-throwing enemies (hell knights, dragons, etc).
green_arena: is this really intended to be ORIENT: east? At the very least it would need to be ORIENT: northeast to connect up to the rest of the level properly. This is also completely bereft of loot, which is inappropriate for the level of challenge it presents.
snake: I think this could also use a bit more loot. (Also, place it in Snake occasionally!)
KennySheep (reporter)
2013-08-07 06:46

Your notes are noted, I'll get to work on these fixes. Thanks a lot for the quick feedback too!

The only thing I disagree with you about is the shaft traps in face/googly_eyes, which were intended to let players exit the sealed off areas if they got unlucky with a teleport/escape hatch/whatever. I'll still remove them in favor of no teleport into tags though.
sgrunt (administrator)
2013-08-07 06:47

If you want to provide the player a means of escape, use escape hatches, not shafts - if they can get stuck, they can get stuck in there more than once.
MarvinPA (developer)
2013-08-07 13:12

Vaults whose only purpose is to be silly art aren't good either, anyway. Nor are vaults whose only purpose is to be a blatant reference to some book or other without actually being interesting vaults themselves. Vaults with guaranteed, non-randomised traps should have those traps marked as known.
KennySheep (reporter)
2013-08-07 20:45

Resubmitted with the following changes:

missing_parent: No longer has a chance of giving pain or distortion weapons, no longer can have altars to Lugonu.

church_of_the_atheists: Altar has been removed

demon_hangout: Demonspawn has been removed

ogre_elephant_herders: Useless junk has been removed, and I am very sorry I didn't proofread that one the first time around

yak_hideout: The point of this vault was only ever to make the player fight out-of-depth yaks, but putting some plants and bushes between the player and the yaks to let the player run away if need be. It's been moved to floor 7 instead of floor 5 to make the yaks a lot less out-of-depth. If this isn't enough it can be moved further down in the dungeon (or just removed)

bagend: Guaranteed ring has been removed, as well as half the empty rooms. The amount of loot and halflings have been increased slightly. It now only spawns on d:3-4, the mid dungeon version with dwarves and a wizard has been removed

treasure_room, four_rooms: More loot added and moved to D:12

alarming_item: The trap is now known, the item is better. It was also moved to D:12

snake: Snake added to depth, more loot added

green_arena: Orient set to north, about the same amount of loot added as is currently found in snake

murder_the_trees: Moved to D:12 where the wand of fire won't be as helpful

kobold_camp: Loot added

seaside_town: Made the loot that was there a little less terrible

spore_jar: Removed the teleporters, added no_rtele_into tags. It's a purely cosmetic vault now.

face: Added no_rtele_into tags for the eyes, nose and brain. small amount of loot added to the brain

forest_fire: Replaced the orc knights with a storm dragon

demon_jail: Added three more items into the loot room

digestion: Changed the layout a little, pre-set the number of acid blobs to prevent a swarm of them from spawning, added some good items to the brain room and mundane items in the stomach

The following maps have been removed:

googly_eyes: an out-of-depth golden eye and one monster to finish the job was a terrible idea for a vault

care_of_magical_creatures: dull, only exists to be a reference

phantopolis: the point was only ever to be twisty passages semi-constantly hard to see down due to fog. evidently this is not an ok use of fog
sgrunt (administrator)
2014-03-10 20:59

I've landed the following:
- kobold_lugonu_temple
- orc_sif_temple - randomised the number of orc wizards present.
- demon_hangout - kind of leery about this one, but we have other vaults at this depth that place lone common demons of various sorts.
- ogre_elephant_herders - places in Depths, and has a herd of dire elephants instead of plain elephants.
- the_goblin_king
- steamy
- treasure_room (as a minivault)
- four_rooms (as a minivault)
- demon_jail
- seaside_town
- kobold_camp (with traps removed)
- green_arena
- snake

I am not landing the following:
- church_of_the_atheists - utilises dummy monsters (demigods) as enemies.
- missing_parent - ditto.
- spore_jar - even (especially?) as a cosmetic vault this isn't a workable concept.
- face - seems primarily to exist to show a silly design on the map without much else compelling about it.
- yak_hideout - with proposed changes to trees this becomes excessively spoilery.
- escape_route - too hamfisted (I've been guilty of the same basic design in the past, but the offending vault is probably going to change anyway).
- alarming_item - inherently spoilery.
- ambush - this concept has been done to death already.
- murder_the_trees - previous vaults with this basic idea have gone away as being too reliant on the player having specific equipment.
- bagend - reliant on monsters that are primarily dummy monsters (halflings).
- digestion - see face.
- forest_fire - with discussion around changes to trees and/or forest fires, the concept of this vault isn't likely to stand up over time.

I think that's everything, so we're done here.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2013-08-06 20:52 KennySheep New Issue
2013-08-06 20:52 KennySheep File Added: float.des
2013-08-06 20:52 KennySheep File Added: large_themed.des
2013-08-06 20:53 KennySheep File Added: large_abstract.des
2013-08-06 23:32 neil Note Added: 0023660
2013-08-07 03:20 sgrunt Note Added: 0023661
2013-08-07 06:46 KennySheep Note Added: 0023662
2013-08-07 06:47 sgrunt Note Added: 0023663
2013-08-07 13:12 MarvinPA Note Added: 0023667
2013-08-07 20:25 KennySheep File Added: edited vaults.des
2013-08-07 20:45 KennySheep Note Added: 0023670
2014-03-10 20:59 sgrunt Note Added: 0025542
2014-03-10 20:59 sgrunt Assigned To => sgrunt
2014-03-10 20:59 sgrunt Status new => resolved
2014-03-10 20:59 sgrunt Resolution open => done
2014-03-10 20:59 sgrunt Fixed in Branch => 0.14 development branch

Mantis 1.1.8[^]
Copyright © 2000 - 2009 Mantis Group
Powered by Mantis Bugtracker