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(0020111)
moxian (reporter)
2012-09-11 20:25
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I don't like the flame ones. They seem more holy or shiny than fiery. Or even that they are sprinkled(?) with golden dust, rather than flaming.
I think the fire shall be more reddish - real world fire is only yellow at it's hot center and becomes darker and redder towards the edges. |
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(0020118)
Galefury (updater)
2012-09-12 00:21
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First off, these look beautiful, and having fancy impressive tiles for randarts would be awesome.
There a few issues, some minor, some major:
You missed pain and draining. And demon tridents. :P
Also I agree with moxian, the fire should be dinstinguished better from holy wrath.
Now for the actual problems: showing these tiles before identification would leak information about the brand (this information would not be available in console). Showing them only after identification would be really weird. The brand of artifacts could be pre-identified both in console and tiles of course. I don't think it would change gameplay in any relevant way, and artifacts are already different from normal weapons in a bunch of other ways, so inconsistency is not a good argument against this. It would be a little weird, though, and some people might not agree with changing crawl just so some pretty tiles can be added. And it would require names for artifacts with identified brand. "It is wielding a flaming dazzling long sword" would sound a little weird. "flaming artifact long sword" is only slightly better.
Another option would be just assigning a random tile from a list to randarts, like it is done for jewellery. A flaming weapon tile for a trident of freezing would be really weird, though. And to not leak information it would have to be assigned completely randomly.
It would also be strange to have these only for a few weapons, and doing this for all weapons would be a huge amount of work.
And finally, note that you cant see the brand of a weapon at all until it is wielded (it bursts into flame) or has an obvious effect (like burning the target). Merely seeing it laying on the floor or even wielded by a monster does not show the brand. Yet your tiles are very different for the different brands. So it would be apparent to the player, but not to the character.
Note that the wield/unwield messages are already inconsistent: the weapon starts dripping with poison, the weapon stops dripping with poison. This implies it was dripping with poison all the time, but somehow you cant see that if a monster is holding it. Not being able to see the brand of a weapon wielded by a monster has a strong (and somewhat interesting) effect on gameplay, and coming up with good messages is hard, which is why this has still not been addressed in any way even though it has been in crawl for ages. |
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(0020119)
Galefury (updater)
2012-09-12 00:40
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You also forgot antimagic.
I have come to the conclusion that it would not be a good idea to add brand-specific artifact tiles, because of the various problems in my previous post (but of course I'm not the one to decide this).
Having random weapon randart tiles for each weapon type would be awesome, though. Many of these could be reused, or used with slight changes. I also liked your artifact bardiche designs in the other issue, even the batshit crazy one. It could just have a lower weight. :) |
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(0020126)
white_noise (reporter)
2012-09-12 09:27
edited on: 2012-09-12 09:32
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[q]Showing them only after identification would be really weird.[/q]
It's not that weird if you think about it. An artifact can use default tile while unidentified. Then you equip it. You get message that it starts dripping with poison (for example) and tile changes to a dripping weapon of venom. Since then it will be dripping weapon wherever you put it. It's like you discover its true nature, or unleashed its power, or whatever.
[q]It would also be strange to have these only for a few weapons, and doing this for all weapons would be a huge amount of work.[/q]
It takes time, sure, but it's quite interesting work. I think I would make it sooner or later. I won't make it until the whole feature is under question, though. For obvious reasons.
[q]And it would require names for artifacts with identified brand.[/q]
Not really. The fact that it's flaming will be in description. But we don't really need to put it in name. It still can be the +6,+5 glaive "Schosof" {god gift, flame, +Inv rF++ rC+ MR Dex+2}.
[q]Note that the wield/unwield messages are already inconsistent: the weapon starts dripping with poison, the weapon stops dripping with poison. This implies it was dripping with poison all the time, but somehow you cant see that if a monster is holding it. Not being able to see the brand of a weapon wielded by a monster has a strong (and somewhat interesting) effect on gameplay, and coming up with good messages is hard, which is why this has still not been addressed in any way even though it has been in crawl for ages.[/q]
No messages should be changed. I think they are just fine. Also, noone cares to read them. I maybe can make the doll tiles, although it will doubles the work, but still. When you identify the weapon in hands of a monster (like when it burns you) it can change a tile as well. And it sure would be cood to wield a flaming sword with your actual char, not just hold it in inventory.
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(0020128)
white_noise (reporter)
2012-09-12 11:22
edited on: 2012-09-12 11:29
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Pain, draining and anti-magic has been added.
And we have demon trident made by dd already.
...
I am sorry for such spammy uploads, but somehow I keep finding trash pixels only after I upload it %)
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(0020132)
galehar (administrator)
2012-09-12 15:25
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I don't really like this. As Galefury said, you'd need to change the tile after identifying it and I don't think that would be good. Also, colour coded weapons is a bit too obvious to my taste. I don't want crawl to look like diablo or a console RPG. |
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(0020133)
white_noise (reporter)
2012-09-12 17:04
edited on: 2012-09-12 17:05
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It would be so boring if they all were the same color. The whole idea here is to differentiate the randarts. What we have now is that every artifact, no matter how powerful or unique it is, looks exactly the same, and I think it's much crazier than heavily enchanted weapon changing its appearance.
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(0020142)
oiseaux (reporter)
2012-09-13 12:45
edited on: 2012-09-13 12:45
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I don't like this. There needs to be *some* consistency with non-artifact item graphics otherwise it becomes almost impossible to visually identify weapons in Tiles. The idea of the weapon graphic changing so drastically is weird and annoying. I would much prefer a little icon to distinguish my weapon types rather than a drastic graphical overhaul.
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(0020155)
white_noise (reporter)
2012-09-14 18:06
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I've got rid of all special effects. Now this tiles can be randomly picked for any artifact. But you probably will want to throw out the most boring ones. |
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(0020156)
dd (updater)
2012-09-14 18:58
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You'll need to draw player doll tiles for them. |
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artifact_polearms.png [^] (90,186 bytes) 2012-09-11 19:52
