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ID Category Severity Reproducibility Date Submitted Last Update
0005223 [DCSS] Bug Report minor always 2012-01-15 02:16 2012-02-09 19:17
Reporter CommanderC View Status public  
Assigned To galehar
Priority normal Resolution done  
Status resolved   Product Branch 0.10 ancient branch
Summary 0005223: Targetting code leaks who is the true Mara or rakshasa.
Description It's very easy to reproduce. Fire a missile or ranged spell to the monster. Wait until it makes clones, then press 'f' to know who is original.
Additional Information
Tags No tags attached.
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-  Notes
(0016869)
ldierk (reporter)
2012-02-02 01:25

This also reveals your last target while being mislead I guess?
(0016871)
minmay (reporter)
2012-02-02 16:58

You can easily know the true Mara or rakshasa without using this. The clones trying to be indistinguishable is an interface screw, and making it screw your interface even more is not an improvement. Back when there was maprot from divination miscasts, making them wipe the entire map instead of 50% of the map would not have been a fix, it would have been the very opposite.
(0016872)
ion_frigate (reporter)
2012-02-02 17:53
edited on: 2012-02-02 17:56

I have to say I agree with minmay here: Mara clones, unless I'm mistaken, already have the same spellset as Mara, so they don't need the added interface screw of being (almost) indistinguishable. As for rakshasa clones, they already obstruct movement and spells so much that they don't need the added buff of being indistinguishable either. Basically both fulfill their intended purposes whether or not you can distinguish them: Mara clones are dangerous, rakshasa clones are nuisances.

Let me also add that the weird and perpetually bug-causing interface screws that keep being added for mimics fall very much under this category as well. Who cares if it's "optimal strategy" to shoot every fountain, shop, and staircase you come across? No one in their right mind will bother to do that, and also, it isn't "optimal" at all, since it would add heavily to your turncount. Mimics fulfill their intended purpose without heavy interface screwing as well; there's no need to make them anything other than monsters whose glyphs/tiles are items.

(0016873)
minmay (reporter)
2012-02-02 21:35

I should clarify that if the clones actually *are* perfectly indistinguishable then it's not an interface screw, it's an actual gameplay effect. One way to do this for Mara would be to make the clone spell blink him when cast (there are probably some other changes I'm forgetting, but it seems like it wouldn't be all that hard).
(0016874)
KiloByte (manager)
2012-02-03 01:15

Unlike maprot, Mara is not a lost cause. Currently, the problem is that a careful player can merely look where Mara was when he summoned the clones. It's a matter of either making him blink as you say or randomly swapping with the newly spawned clone.
(0016875)
ion_frigate (reporter)
2012-02-03 03:29

Don't forget abjuration: now that it's single-target, you can distinguish the clones by which Mara doesn't "shudder" when you hit him with the spell, even if you don't have it at anywhere near enough power to banish the clones.

IMO it's *more* interesting that a careful player might be able to figure out which is the real Mara to hit with Iron Shot, since that's a tactical choice: stay and waste MP and time trying to kill the real one, all while being hit four Maras, or leave him around to fight another day. Right now, when confronted with Mara, you have these options: Abjure the clones, kill the clones AND the real one (e.g. a Storm spell, Tornado), or try to distinguish the real one (risky and difficult, albeit not impossible). I like that it's difficult to distinguish the real one; making it impossible simply removes the last option there entirely, making fighting Mara less interesting, not more.
(0016939)
elliptic (developer)
2012-02-08 18:52

I think Mara not blinking or whatever when he triplicates himself is fine... usually it means you know which one is the real one for a turn or two, but often two will blink at the same time and then you won't. As ion_frigate says, being able to distinguish the real one sometimes adds an extra option, which is good.

The bug with targeting is a real problem, though, since that's just an interface abuse.
(0016943)
galehar (administrator)
2012-02-09 17:03

Fixed.
(0016945)
KiloByte (manager)
2012-02-09 19:17

galehar: hey, you're breaking the rules. You're supposed to spend hours arguing about an issue for a week then forget it, instead of actually fixing.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2012-01-15 02:16 CommanderC New Issue
2012-01-28 04:37 XuaXua Note Added: 0016833
2012-02-02 01:25 ldierk Note Added: 0016869
2012-02-02 16:58 minmay Note Added: 0016871
2012-02-02 17:53 ion_frigate Note Added: 0016872
2012-02-02 17:56 ion_frigate Note Edited: 0016872
2012-02-02 17:56 ion_frigate Note Edited: 0016872
2012-02-02 21:35 minmay Note Added: 0016873
2012-02-02 22:02 XuaXua Note Deleted: 0016833
2012-02-03 01:15 KiloByte Note Added: 0016874
2012-02-03 03:29 ion_frigate Note Added: 0016875
2012-02-08 18:52 elliptic Note Added: 0016939
2012-02-09 17:03 galehar Note Added: 0016943
2012-02-09 17:03 galehar Status new => resolved
2012-02-09 17:03 galehar Fixed in Branch => 0.10 development branch
2012-02-09 17:03 galehar Resolution open => done
2012-02-09 17:03 galehar Assigned To => galehar
2012-02-09 19:17 KiloByte Note Added: 0016945


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