0003793: Elephants are too common - Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup Tracker

(0012416)
KiloByte (manager)
2011-04-11 12:35

Why won't we just decrease rarity? It was never supposed to represent numbers of monsters but numbers of bands -- dividing rarities by the avg number of mons in band would handle only homogenous bands, making things worse for those with a leader.

Reducing elephants doesn't require any extra code, just making one number smaller.

So, how rare should they be?

(0012425)
elliptic (developer)
2011-04-12 21:58

I'd suggest (after looking at the numbers greensnark produced on ##crawl-dev the other day) reducing the generation of both yaks and elephants by 25% or so.

(0012427)
minmay (reporter)
2011-04-12 22:28

Elephants should probably be less common than yaks; yaks are a lot weaker.

(0012428)
elliptic (developer)
2011-04-12 22:32

Currently they are about the same frequency in Lair; I personally think that's fine, since yaks are so boring in comparison. Elephants appear deeper than yaks anyway.

(0012436)
KiloByte (manager)
2011-04-12 23:37

The problem with elephants are that they are a very common enemy in four branches: D, Lair, Vaults, Vestibule. In a 3-runer, these branches have 43 levels vs 28 without possible elephants (counting just branches not depths).

(0012437)
dpeg (administrator)
2011-04-12 23:38

We definitely want elephants in Lair and Vestibule, so why not remove them from Dungeon and Vaults?

(0012438)
elliptic (developer)
2011-04-12 23:47

I haven't really noticed elephants in D and V aside from elephant graveyard... I'm sure they generate, but they aren't very interesting or annoying by the time you get past Lair. That just makes removing them from D and V a better idea, of course.

(0012462)
due (developer)
2011-04-13 14:22

I was unaware they generated anywhere outside of Lair; considering they were initially designed to only be in a single vault, I think it really has ballooned out of control. Limiting them to Lair is good, likewise reducing frequency by 25%; I'm uncertain about Vestibule, but if dpeg wants them there then that's fine.

(0012467)
XuaXua (reporter)
2011-04-13 16:38

Elephant zombies/skeletons in the crypt:4 might be fun.

(0012517)
KiloByte (manager)
2011-04-14 11:50

A reduction by 25% doesn't sound meaningful, but let's give it a try.

Notes
(0012416) KiloByte (manager) 2011-04-11 12:35	Why won't we just decrease rarity? It was never supposed to represent numbers of monsters but numbers of bands -- dividing rarities by the avg number of mons in band would handle only homogenous bands, making things worse for those with a leader. Reducing elephants doesn't require any extra code, just making one number smaller. So, how rare should they be?

(0012425) elliptic (developer) 2011-04-12 21:58	I'd suggest (after looking at the numbers greensnark produced on ##crawl-dev the other day) reducing the generation of both yaks and elephants by 25% or so.

(0012427) minmay (reporter) 2011-04-12 22:28	Elephants should probably be less common than yaks; yaks are a lot weaker.

(0012428) elliptic (developer) 2011-04-12 22:32	Currently they are about the same frequency in Lair; I personally think that's fine, since yaks are so boring in comparison. Elephants appear deeper than yaks anyway.

(0012436) KiloByte (manager) 2011-04-12 23:37	The problem with elephants are that they are a very common enemy in four branches: D, Lair, Vaults, Vestibule. In a 3-runer, these branches have 43 levels vs 28 without possible elephants (counting just branches not depths).

(0012437) dpeg (administrator) 2011-04-12 23:38	We definitely want elephants in Lair and Vestibule, so why not remove them from Dungeon and Vaults?

(0012438) elliptic (developer) 2011-04-12 23:47	I haven't really noticed elephants in D and V aside from elephant graveyard... I'm sure they generate, but they aren't very interesting or annoying by the time you get past Lair. That just makes removing them from D and V a better idea, of course.

(0012462) due (developer) 2011-04-13 14:22	I was unaware they generated anywhere outside of Lair; considering they were initially designed to only be in a single vault, I think it really has ballooned out of control. Limiting them to Lair is good, likewise reducing frequency by 25%; I'm uncertain about Vestibule, but if dpeg wants them there then that's fine.

(0012467) XuaXua (reporter) 2011-04-13 16:38	Elephant zombies/skeletons in the crypt:4 might be fun.

(0012517) KiloByte (manager) 2011-04-14 11:50	A reduction by 25% doesn't sound meaningful, but let's give it a try.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2011-04-11 04:40	greensnark	New Issue
2011-04-11 12:35	KiloByte	Note Added: 0012416
2011-04-12 21:58	elliptic	Note Added: 0012425
2011-04-12 22:28	minmay	Note Added: 0012427
2011-04-12 22:32	elliptic	Note Added: 0012428
2011-04-12 23:37	KiloByte	Note Added: 0012436
2011-04-12 23:38	dpeg	Note Added: 0012437
2011-04-12 23:47	elliptic	Note Added: 0012438
2011-04-13 14:22	due	Note Added: 0012462
2011-04-13 16:38	XuaXua	Note Added: 0012467
2011-04-13 19:31	XuaXua	Issue Monitored: XuaXua
2011-04-14 11:50	KiloByte	Note Added: 0012517
2011-04-14 11:50	KiloByte	Status	new => resolved
2011-04-14 11:50	KiloByte	Fixed in Branch	=> 0.9 development branch
2011-04-14 11:50	KiloByte	Resolution	open => done
2011-04-14 11:50	KiloByte	Assigned To	=> KiloByte

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