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ID Category Severity Reproducibility Date Submitted Last Update
0002405 [DCSS] FR: Gameplay Balancing minor N/A 2010-08-30 06:21 2013-11-10 19:36
Reporter OG17 View Status public  
Assigned To Kate
Priority normal Resolution done  
Status resolved   Product Branch 0.8 ancient branch
Summary 0002405: Don't give piety for divine summon kills
Description Makhleb/TSO/Trog summons have you spend piety to temporarily gain an ally, so why does that ally provide piety for its kills? When summons rampage through a level, it can not only pay for itself, but result in a profit - it makes no sense to give these abilities a piety cost when you walk away from them with more than you started with, as it turns the cost into an afterthought and the gods into steamrollers. A god shouldn't pay for the work of its own rented servants.

Blood gods make this worse by sacrificing summon-killed corpses for double-dipped rewards, which should perhaps be factored into the cost of the summons, but as TSO summons are similarly priced but healed and extended to stick around for ages, it'd likely work out to be the same in the end. It's not as problematic as piety on kills, at any rate. Somewhat relatedly, these summons all seem rather inexpensive to begin with, though that might be another topic.

Permanent divine allies and other companions are unrelated to any of this, to stem off confusion.
Additional Information
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-  Notes
(0007654)
ledtim (reporter)
2010-08-30 07:03

 Why should summons be different that any other god-given ability that helps you kill and thus gain piety? Should kills using Makhleb's Greater Destruction or Fedhas' spores not give piety for example? Both can result in net piety gain if you can get enough enemies with it too.
(0007655)
OG17 (reporter)
2010-08-30 07:37

 Demons and angels can tear through entire maps. This isn't exactly comparable to single-use effects, I think, especially ones that are unlikely to be profitable (which is basically all of them).

Spores don't take piety, for what it's worth.
(0007656)
TGW (reporter)
2010-08-30 07:44
edited on: 2010-08-30 07:45

 As for single-use attacks, Slouch could bear to not give piety, although that might somehow encourage people to avoid one-hitting things with it which is pretty lame.

but yeah definitely +1 to the OP
(0007657)
ledtim (reporter)
2010-08-30 08:01

 Killing with summons already has a huge penalty of giving only half experience though.

Also, spores have piety opportunity cost.
(0007658)
MrMisterMonkey (reporter)
2010-08-30 08:04

 I don't like how divine summons work currently, sure, but I also strongly dislike encouraging kill-stealing, so perhaps something else would be smoother.
(0007659)
TGW (reporter)
2010-08-30 08:05

 Summons encourage kill-stealing anyway.
(0007660)
KiloByte (manager)
2010-08-30 09:29

 -1, would encourage degenerate play, and is already balanced by half exp.
(0007662)
OG17 (reporter)
2010-08-30 14:32

 If a player goes to the trouble of micromanaging summons to get the last hit in, he's wasting much of their duration to do so, and I believe TSO won't be healing or extending the things, either.

Halved experience is besides the point, as that's the implicit price of any companion, while these summons have clear piety costs. Also note that halved experience encourages "degenerate play" in itself, as TGW says.
(0024364)
Kate (developer)
2013-11-10 19:36

 Closing some old FRs.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2010-08-30 06:21 OG17 New Issue
2010-08-30 07:03 ledtim Note Added: 0007654
2010-08-30 07:37 OG17 Note Added: 0007655
2010-08-30 07:44 TGW Note Added: 0007656
2010-08-30 07:45 TGW Note Edited: 0007656
2010-08-30 08:01 ledtim Note Added: 0007657
2010-08-30 08:04 MrMisterMonkey Note Added: 0007658
2010-08-30 08:05 TGW Note Added: 0007659
2010-08-30 09:29 KiloByte Note Added: 0007660
2010-08-30 14:32 OG17 Note Added: 0007662
2013-11-10 19:36 Kate Note Added: 0024364
2013-11-10 19:36 Kate Status new => resolved
2013-11-10 19:36 Kate Fixed in Branch => 0.14 development branch
2013-11-10 19:36 Kate Resolution open => done
2013-11-10 19:36 Kate Assigned To => Kate

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