0002259: Make Zin protect from Hell effects - Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup Tracker

(0007091)
OG17 (reporter)
2010-08-11 11:01

Who ever said Zin's bad in the late game? And how is this thematic in any sense?

(0007092)
KiloByte (manager)
2010-08-11 11:06

Since in 0.8 neqoxecs and cacodemons are way, way nastier, Zin already received a significant buff.

(0007094)
rob (developer)
2010-08-11 11:17

they're not nastier than in 0.6

(0007095)
herself (reporter)
2010-08-11 11:28
edited on: 2010-08-11 11:29

,,a significant buff''? Was amulet of resist mutation nerfed? Because if it wasn't Zin's trademark power can be easily replaced with an amulet slot.

(0007116)
dpeg (administrator)
2010-08-11 18:22

Zin is much better (and much more) than an amulet of resist mutation.

I like the principal idea of the FR, but I am not sure how to get protection from Hell effects into Zin's powers thematically.

(0007149)
Cryptic (developer)
2010-08-12 21:58

I too like the proposal, thematically:

"Zin pacifies the effects of hell."

Other than working in some sort of pacification or sancutary type explanation, I'm not sure you can easily work it in thematically.

(0007168)
dolorous (updater)
2010-08-13 05:11

Sounds good to me too. Zin's Sanctuary already protects against hell effects, though.

(0007169)
evilmike (developer)
2010-08-13 05:33

Zin seems like a god of law and order, and hell effects are pretty chaotic and random. I think it could be thematically justified if he would tone them down a bit. He shouldn't completely block them though, maybe just lower the rate of them occurring depending on piety, or block specific effects such as glowing.

I think buffing Zin's passive effects would give player a bit more choice in the extended endgame (for a 3 rune game he's balanced enough). He has some very powerful invocations already, but you can't use them too often (piety comes slowly), and TSO is simply better at keeping you alive when you're facing hordes of demons or undead.

Of course, you CAN use zin in the extended endgame, and he'd be fine, but the same could be said of any god.

One might argue that it's fine that certain gods are better at some things than others. I agree with this - I don't mind that it's easier to get 15 runes with say, Makhleb, than it is with Yred. The problem with Zin is that he's good-aligned, and that means switching to TSO for the extended endgame is a bit of a no-brainer. There are really no penalties to doing this, other than having to build up your piety again, and you gain a lot by switching over. (I am not suggesting there should be penalties, by the way - that would be impossible to justify.)

(0008460)
rob (developer)
2010-09-12 11:43

moved to wiki (brainstorm:gods:zin)

Notes
(0007091) OG17 (reporter) 2010-08-11 11:01	Who ever said Zin's bad in the late game? And how is this thematic in any sense?

(0007092) KiloByte (manager) 2010-08-11 11:06	Since in 0.8 neqoxecs and cacodemons are way, way nastier, Zin already received a significant buff.

(0007094) rob (developer) 2010-08-11 11:17	they're not nastier than in 0.6

(0007095) herself (reporter) 2010-08-11 11:28 edited on: 2010-08-11 11:29	,,a significant buff''? Was amulet of resist mutation nerfed? Because if it wasn't Zin's trademark power can be easily replaced with an amulet slot.

(0007116) dpeg (administrator) 2010-08-11 18:22	Zin is much better (and much more) than an amulet of resist mutation. I like the principal idea of the FR, but I am not sure how to get protection from Hell effects into Zin's powers thematically.

(0007149) Cryptic (developer) 2010-08-12 21:58	I too like the proposal, thematically: "Zin pacifies the effects of hell." Other than working in some sort of pacification or sancutary type explanation, I'm not sure you can easily work it in thematically.

(0007168) dolorous (updater) 2010-08-13 05:11	Sounds good to me too. Zin's Sanctuary already protects against hell effects, though.

(0007169) evilmike (developer) 2010-08-13 05:33	Zin seems like a god of law and order, and hell effects are pretty chaotic and random. I think it could be thematically justified if he would tone them down a bit. He shouldn't completely block them though, maybe just lower the rate of them occurring depending on piety, or block specific effects such as glowing. I think buffing Zin's passive effects would give player a bit more choice in the extended endgame (for a 3 rune game he's balanced enough). He has some very powerful invocations already, but you can't use them too often (piety comes slowly), and TSO is simply better at keeping you alive when you're facing hordes of demons or undead. Of course, you CAN use zin in the extended endgame, and he'd be fine, but the same could be said of any god. One might argue that it's fine that certain gods are better at some things than others. I agree with this - I don't mind that it's easier to get 15 runes with say, Makhleb, than it is with Yred. The problem with Zin is that he's good-aligned, and that means switching to TSO for the extended endgame is a bit of a no-brainer. There are really no penalties to doing this, other than having to build up your piety again, and you gain a lot by switching over. (I am not suggesting there should be penalties, by the way - that would be impossible to justify.)

(0008460) rob (developer) 2010-09-12 11:43	moved to wiki (brainstorm:gods:zin)

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-08-11 10:55	SlyShy	New Issue
2010-08-11 11:01	OG17	Note Added: 0007091
2010-08-11 11:06	KiloByte	Note Added: 0007092
2010-08-11 11:17	rob	Note Added: 0007094
2010-08-11 11:28	herself	Note Added: 0007095
2010-08-11 11:29	herself	Note Edited: 0007095
2010-08-11 18:22	dpeg	Note Added: 0007116
2010-08-12 21:58	Cryptic	Note Added: 0007149
2010-08-13 05:11	dolorous	Note Added: 0007168
2010-08-13 05:33	evilmike	Note Added: 0007169
2010-09-12 11:43	rob	Note Added: 0008460
2010-09-12 11:43	rob	Status	new => resolved
2010-09-12 11:43	rob	Fixed in Branch	=> 0.8 development branch
2010-09-12 11:43	rob	Resolution	open => done
2010-09-12 11:43	rob	Assigned To	=> rob

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