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ID Category Severity Reproducibility Date Submitted Last Update
0012125 [DCSS] Bug Report major always 2019-11-09 14:17 2019-11-20 07:19
Reporter sdynet View Status public  
Assigned To
Priority normal Resolution open  
Status new   Product Branch 0.24 stable branch
Summary 0012125: Dith's shadow mimic does not distract enemies unless certain conditions are met.
Description The distract effect does not occur if there is no nearby player's ally that the enemy can attack. As to why this happens, I think:
In general cases, when allies attack the enemy, the enemy's gaze is directed at the ally. But in mimic's case, it disappears immediately after the attack. At the same time, it means that the object that will receive the enemy's gaze has disappeared
Therefore, the distract effect does not occur when players fight alone. However, if a player fights with another ally, even if mimic disappears after the attack, the enemy's eye is directed to the other ally. Therefore, things like screenshots happen.
Additional Information
Tags No tags attached.
Attached Files png file icon Dithmenis Distracted.png [^] (176,585 bytes) 2019-11-09 14:17
png file icon Shadow Mimic.png [^] (58,592 bytes) 2019-11-10 11:39

- Relationships

-  Notes
(0033570)
Amnesiac (reporter)
2019-11-09 20:01

While it's probably true, that it might work differently with and without allies, firstly, you still deal extra damage, which was probably the main idea, secondly, distractions still happen if you have a high stealth, unless somethings has changed recently.
I guess it might be a combination of both distraction mechanic and tracking mechanic(for example at a high stealth monsters forget about you almost as soon as you leave their LoL), so they just forget about you on the distraction trigger, because they start to look for targets anew(I've had monsters starting wandering around after a mimic attack, which makes them stabable same as distraction), or if they don't forget you, maybe they still need a new detection check for the next turn,
as opposed to distraction + enemies having another target to attack.
(0033571)
sdynet (reporter)
2019-11-10 11:40

Amnesiac//Unfortunately, your guess is wrong. I tried again. This time it didn't generate fog. I set my stealth skills at zero, wore heavy armor, and wore a gong shield. I wore two rings of attention, and set my dex to 1. I betrayed Ashenzari so that the enemy would never forget me.
But the results were the same. Look at the new screenshot. When me fought alone without ally, no distract effects occurred. When I fought with the ally, the distract effect was frequent. You know of course, Guardian Golem doesn't attack the enemy. Thus, the Golem attack did not catch the gaze of the enemy.
(0033575)
Amnesiac (reporter)
2019-11-10 21:25
edited on: 2019-11-10 21:44

I don't see how I'm wrong on my points, though. I said they are different situations. You've just confirmed my guess that they are.
Now set your stealth really high with max piety and have some swings at an enemy without your ally(idk if the speed of swings matters, you could play around with that, too), you should see that distractions happen that way, too.
It could be there was some change to the mechanic, but I doubt it, because it worked fine.

My main point, thought, is that I don't see much reason in giving mimic extra chance of distraction, as the main point of mimic is extra damage, I presume, and distraction is just a side effect(I don't think spell shadow mimics distract enemies either?).
Or is your point, perhaps, that they should work the same, so the extra chance with no damage allies should be removed, instead? With that I would agree, maybe, because it seems like an unintended feature/bug.

Though, I see your complaint as "I get an unintended advantage, so make it also work with the intended use" which doesn't seem like a valid point. And yes, it's too situational, so it shouldn't have been intended. Regardless, I don't think the devs should or will work on this, there are various other weird game behaviours that get ignored for years and I don't see much problem there, unless they singlehandedly break the game. However, if you make and submit a patch yourself it might be accepted at least for experimentation.(sorry for speaking for the devs, it's just my vision of the situation)

(0033576)
sdynet (reporter)
2019-11-11 09:27
edited on: 2019-11-11 09:29

Ah, I understand. Since I didn't explain my point clearly, there was a great misunderstanding between each other.

My main point, mimic is there to create a distract effect. Further damage is only a small bonus.
Because, Dith is the god of assassination and escape. They powers are all designed to maximize when the player uses a short blade. Mimic, too, can be seen from that point of view as a power created for the assassin. Its power is half your relevant weapon skill plus half your Fighting skill. Brands and Enchants do not copy. Damage caused by using form is not reflected either. Even if you turn into a dragon form, it attacks the enemy based on the form you had before you changed. I faith in this god and used a triple sword or a great mace. The link between them and Mimic was not impressive compared to what I expected. What was impressive was the combination of throwing or magic. But as I said above, this god is the god of assassination and escape. I think this is an additional effect. Yes, the reason for the existence of this power is to support a short blade like other Dith's power. In a way that gives the enemy distract effect.

The power of assassination, given by the god of assassination. Does this sound the only natural to me?

So I thought it was a bug that Mimic didn't distract the enemy when the player fought alone.

(0033585)
Yermak (reporter)
2019-11-20 01:41

When enemies are distracted while you fight with allies and zero stealth, it's due to allies, not Dith's shadow mimic. Look closely at when you fight with allies under other gods. Enemies will still get distracted from time to time.

This is how distraction works: when an enemy gets damaged by another source (anything but you: allies, Dith's mimic, another enemy) it gets a chance to forget about you and to turn its attention to this source of damage. When it's this enemy's turn to act, it tries to attack its current opponent; it succeeds if this opponent is your ally, but if it was another enemy or Dith's mimic he can't attack it, that's why he tries to search for another opponent. On the screenshot yak found your guardian golem. If your stealth is non-zero and there are no allies, enemy can fail to find a target to attack. When you fight alone with no stealth, enemies will always find you as their next opponent, so that's why you never see them distracted when it's your turn to act again.
(0033587)
sdynet (reporter)
2019-11-20 07:19

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I understood that this is not a bug. Apart from that, I think Shadow Mimic should be an ability to assist in assassination. Because Dith's theme is assassination. Well, but this is not the topic to share here. This is an opinion that should go to the tavern...

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2019-11-09 14:17 sdynet New Issue
2019-11-09 14:17 sdynet File Added: Dithmenis Distracted.png
2019-11-09 20:01 Amnesiac Note Added: 0033570
2019-11-10 11:39 sdynet File Added: Shadow Mimic.png
2019-11-10 11:40 sdynet Note Added: 0033571
2019-11-10 21:25 Amnesiac Note Added: 0033575
2019-11-10 21:33 Amnesiac Note Edited: 0033575
2019-11-10 21:44 Amnesiac Note Edited: 0033575
2019-11-11 09:27 sdynet Note Added: 0033576
2019-11-11 09:29 sdynet Note Edited: 0033576
2019-11-20 01:41 Yermak Note Added: 0033585
2019-11-20 07:19 sdynet Note Added: 0033587


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