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5503 Implementables minor N/A 2012-03-28 00:50 2013-12-10 13:39
galehar Both  
MarvinPA All  
normal Both  
closed 0.11 ancient branch  
done  
none    
none 0.14 ancient branch  
0005503: improve portal vault timers
The current short/long timers enforce an optimal exploration pattern (fully explore each level before going to the next one). This is bad.

Here is how I suggest we fix it:
The short timer triggers when you see any cell of the portal's entry vault, not the portal itself. When it does, there's a thematic message printed. For example for a sewer: "you smell garbage nearby".
The long timer doesn't trigger when you enter the level. It will if you magic-map any cell of the portal's vault (either via scroll, Ash, DD,...). When it does, there's also a message, a variation of the short one adapted for the distance.
has duplicate 0004012resolved mumra Unannounced portal vaults should not announce when they close if player not present on the level 
Issue History
2012-03-28 00:50 galehar New Issue
2012-03-28 01:02 galehar Description Updated
2012-03-28 01:49 minmay Note Added: 0017518
2012-03-28 01:50 KoboldLord Note Added: 0017519
2012-03-28 06:22 ion_frigate Note Added: 0017523
2012-03-28 23:18 galehar Note Added: 0017534
2012-03-30 18:08 MarvinPA Note Added: 0017557
2012-03-30 18:09 MarvinPA Note Edited: 0017557
2012-03-30 18:09 MarvinPA Note Edited: 0017557
2012-09-03 15:13 galehar Note Added: 0019889
2012-09-03 15:32 KiloByte Note Added: 0019890
2013-03-29 05:29 mumra Relationship added has duplicate 0004012
2013-11-10 19:05 MarvinPA Note Added: 0024353
2013-11-10 19:05 MarvinPA Status new => resolved
2013-11-10 19:05 MarvinPA Fixed in Branch => 0.14 development branch
2013-11-10 19:05 MarvinPA Resolution open => done
2013-11-10 19:05 MarvinPA Assigned To => MarvinPA
2013-12-10 13:39 galehar Status resolved => closed

Notes
(0017518)
minmay   
2012-03-28 01:49   
That exploration pattern is not optimal. "Stair-dipping" is often safer. However, if you removed these timers, then stair-dipping would always be optimal!
(0017519)
KoboldLord   
2012-03-28 01:50   
That last part would make magic mapping effects worse than not having magic mapping effects whenever there is a possibility for portals to be present. You can't convince Ashenzari not to start the timer for you, and that means those characters still have to drop everything and head for the portal.
(0017523)
ion_frigate   
2012-03-28 06:22   
@KoboldLord: That's more or less the intention of timed portal vaults. You have the choice between taking the portal now with what you have, or risking losing it by going to a stash/gaining more experience. This is simply designed to prevent players from needing to explore every level fully before moving to the next, so as to not miss portal vaults because the long timer expired for a portal they never knew about.
(0017534)
galehar   
2012-03-28 23:18   
@minmay: right, I meant optimal in the context of not missing out on portal vaults. Sorry for being unclear. The consequences of stair-dipping on portal vault timers is extremely spoily. If changing timers make stair dipping strictly optimal, it's still an improvement in my book.

@koboldlord: In normal exploration, passive magic mapping might trigger the long timer sooner than expected. But it's announced and not immediate, so it's still nicer than the current behaviour (long timer starting silently on level entry). And the long timer is very long, you still have plenty of time to clear the level. The point is to prevent the player from running to his stash. It's much longer than the bazaar/labyrinth timer.
In some cases, like when being shafted, magic mapping (either passive or active) might be seen has a bad thing because it can trigger the long timer. I do think it's the lesser of 2 evils. The other one being recognizing a magic mapped entry vault and avoiding exploring it to be able to enter the portal at the player's discretion.
(0017557)
MarvinPA   
2012-03-30 18:08   
(edited on: 2012-03-30 18:09)
Ashenzari tells you exactly where all portals are anyway, so starting the long timer immediately seems desirable.

(0019889)
galehar   
2012-09-03 15:13   
Another solution recently discussed in IRC: just make all the timed portal announced.
The announce portals work well and are fun.
(0019890)
KiloByte   
2012-09-03 15:32   
Stated troubles with the implementation seem to be quite bogus to me: it's not any more complex than, say, adding feature renames -- both add a property to the entire vault rather than placing a marker.

This doesn't address gameplay issues: whether it's better to have an announcement or not. The rush when you look for a timed portal is fun, but it wouldn't work with for example current Orc, which often requires deep dives and coming back (by design) or mmap+digging or teleport scumming (by bugs).
(0024353)
MarvinPA   
2013-11-10 19:05   
All portals are announced now.