0002437: In theory, Dispersal is broken; a request to change this

Notes
(0007793) evktalo (administrator) 2010-09-02 11:00	I like the idea of summons going poof or hostile (demons) when out of LOS. --Eino

(0007794) KiloByte (manager) 2010-09-02 11:01	How do you "accidentally" teleport someone? Teleport Other is a targetted spell, and using Dispersal is no different than, say, Toxic Radiance.

(0007795) b0rsuk (updater) 2010-09-02 11:06	"This means that players can hide in a clear room, summon up a storm, and disperse the summons all over the level, slowly killing things, while in virtually no danger. This takes an extremely long time, and is extremely tedious, but looks very easy to automate, particularly for a mummy." A definition of grinding ? I think summons attacking targets outside player's field of view is already bad enough. It makes me feel dirty when I play that way. "Summon and run away" is one of easiest and cheesiest ways to kill many uniques. While I like the idea of blinking summons and in general spells which a summoner would find helpful, I oppose this implementation. By the way, I think this FR belongs on the wiki in Brainstorming section.

(0007796) MrMisterMonkey (reporter) 2010-09-02 11:11	KiloByte, by letting the ally in question walk over an unknown teleport trap.

(0007878) StudioMK (reporter) 2010-09-04 06:37 edited on: 2010-09-04 06:45	Teleportation is not always a hostile act. With allies, teleport other can potentially save their lives (and they shouldn't try to resist it). Recall, similarly. As for using dispersal in this way, it's not much different from summoning up a storm anyway and sending them in whilst you run away. This isn't a problem with dispersal/teleport other, this is a problem with summons in general (the ability to summon up a storm). Also, your summons need to be actually strong enough to survive the monsters they're fighting. Random summons poofing around the dungeon and attacking other creatures on their own isn't really a threat to other monsters - it just wakes them up. If your summons can survive the monsters on their own then the summoner has already won the level, with or without the dispersal spell/teleportation. Making summoning noisy would stop this (and attract monsters to their location). "Wait here" provides a similar affect as the described above with no MP cost at all. The solution I suggest would be to reduce the duration of all summons when they're affected by translocations (including clouds of translocational energy). The reasoning would be "the effect of translocations has the result of making their existence in this domain more unstable". It would also provide additional utility to the teleport other spell (and dispersal spell) when fighting summons. If you want more invulnerability: Summon up a storm, CTele, recall, teleport out. Alternatively, have summons stop attacking monsters when they go out of LOS. Apply that to allies too so they don't wander off randomly (or chase monsters into black and die).

(0007881) OG17 (reporter) 2010-09-04 09:30	>If your summons can survive the monsters on their own then the summoner has already won the level, with or without the dispersal spell/teleportation. is pretty much the end of this - if scattered summons can manage to kill things, moving as a group would kill things absurdly faster. If someone wanted to automate it, one could hope that OOD generation would damper his efforts, or one could perhaps come to the conclusion that normal play doesn't need to be compromised to thwart someone's theoretical private botting. Allies attacking things while out of LOS is one of the biggest selling points of basing your offense on autonomous creatures - if you need to look at everything you kill, you may as well be casting conjurations (which, incidentally, lead to many spells that handily kill things out of LOS).

(0021559) Kate (developer) 2013-03-16 17:34	Summons no longer attack while out of LOS.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-09-02 10:23	MrMisterMonkey	New Issue
2010-09-02 11:00	evktalo	Note Added: 0007793
2010-09-02 11:01	KiloByte	Note Added: 0007794
2010-09-02 11:06	b0rsuk	Note Added: 0007795
2010-09-02 11:11	MrMisterMonkey	Note Added: 0007796
2010-09-04 06:37	StudioMK	Note Added: 0007878
2010-09-04 06:38	StudioMK	Note Edited: 0007878
2010-09-04 06:38	StudioMK	Note Edited: 0007878
2010-09-04 06:39	StudioMK	Note Edited: 0007878
2010-09-04 06:41	StudioMK	Note Edited: 0007878
2010-09-04 06:42	StudioMK	Note Edited: 0007878
2010-09-04 06:42	StudioMK	Note Edited: 0007878
2010-09-04 06:43	StudioMK	Note Edited: 0007878
2010-09-04 06:44	StudioMK	Note Edited: 0007878
2010-09-04 06:45	StudioMK	Note Edited: 0007878
2010-09-04 09:30	OG17	Note Added: 0007881
2013-03-16 17:34	Kate	Note Added: 0021559
2013-03-16 17:34	Kate	Status	new => resolved
2013-03-16 17:34	Kate	Fixed in Branch	=> 0.12 development branch
2013-03-16 17:34	Kate	Resolution	open => done
2013-03-16 17:34	Kate	Assigned To	=> Kate

Relationships