0000161: Don't add autoexclusions for temporary clouds (spells, natural clouds, ...)

(0000360)
rob (developer)
2009-12-11 17:34

Rather, these clouds shouldn't cause exclusions. I think the exclusions are just meant for the ones caused by fog machines.

(0000537)
jpeg (manager)
2009-12-24 01:32

I recently saw that even the steam generated over lava (or was it water?) generated autoexclusions (that, naturally, didn't clear) which had the result that at some point the entire body of liquid was excluded and kept re-excluding itself!

(I also encountered one of those flame thrower vaults where the exclusions actually were useful, but with them popping up everywhere I feel they are more of an interface annoyance than helpful.)

(0000556)
dpeg (administrator)
2009-12-24 13:47

Autoexclusions from steam is bad. Autoexclusions from the flame thrower vaults is good -- this is exactly what we want them for, after all!

(0001064)
jpeg (manager)
2010-01-12 20:30

Spell miscasts and Xom effects no longer create exclusions. I've seen the exclusion-creating steaming lake again but that might be using a fog generator and is apparently buggy in itself (see BR 400).

(0001632)
jpeg (manager)
2010-01-26 00:14

Appears to be fixed, except for the buggy lake, which is handled elsewhere.

(0002314)
dpeg (administrator)
2010-02-09 17:12

Reopening.

(0002315)
tinyrodent (reporter)
2010-02-09 17:19

Still reproducible in 0.6.0-a1-3221-g3b7463e

The scenario I encountered is a temple entrance surrounded mostly by shallow water but with a couple of lava. It makes a lot of steam cloud exclusions which are quite annoying as mentioned. But especially for this character which has rF++, the steam has no effect anyway.

(0002319)
jpeg (manager)
2010-02-09 18:24

Apparently, the lake is a geyser minivault and the steam intentional, so please comment over at Mantis issue 400.

I didn't find the steam to be dangerous myself (even without rF) and I don't think there's any way for exclusions to take into account temporary resistances.

@dpeg: Any reasons for reopening this? *puzzled*

(0002321)
tinyrodent (reporter)
2010-02-09 18:37

I asked for the issue to be reopened because the auto exclusions are still a problem. Maybe none should be added for steam under any circumstances.

(0002331)
Nobody (reporter)
2010-02-10 00:11

I second that. A potentially better solution would be to only place exclusions for tiles that regularly produce "stationary" clouds (e.g., flame clouds around the Vehumet overflow altar, ice clouds created in the "hallway of death" pseudovault, et cetera). And it'd have to be coded as to not place an exclusion for clouds created on that tile by other forces, like players with Conjure Flame. But the other cloud types like steam (and maybe throw in the flame cloud from Trog's book altar, since that's a one-time thing) would be handled the same way as temporary dangerous terrain created by the player.

Or would that be a bit too spoiler-ish?

(0002334)
due (developer)
2010-02-10 00:46

I noticed that oddness on the Trog book altar the other day; I'm pretty sure that there's a way of marking a cloud with a specific kill category in order to make it not make autoexclusions, but I haven't had time to look into it yet.

(0002680)
OG17 (reporter)
2010-02-18 02:55

I think I stumbled across the temple entrance Tinyrodent mentioned; the staircase itself is excluded, which is going to be a fantastic irritation when using the place as a stash. I'm putting an image of it up, hoping it'll be disabled until clouds are working better.

(0002702)
jpeg (manager)
2010-02-18 20:53

Steam clouds are now specialcased to not exclude adjacent cells, as all other potentially harmful clouds do. This doesn't actually solve the problem (I doubt we'll find a solution before 0.6 is released), but does greatly reduce the number of excluded cells.

(0008481)
rob (developer)
2010-09-12 15:27

temporary clouds don't seem to get exclusions anymore since quite a while, and if steam is special-cased but not entirely excluded, that seems to be intentional

(0010184)
absolutego (reporter)
2011-01-04 10:27

i just encountered the steam-around-temple-staircase issue (0.8, put up an image for reference), which kills autotravel until you remove all the exclusions. i'm not sure what i'd do about it, but maybe removing that particular layout would be advised?

(0012518)
jpeg (manager)
2011-04-14 12:11

The steam in the temple entry has been replaced with mist, which doesn't interrupt travel.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2009-12-11 15:29	jpeg	New Issue
2009-12-11 15:31	jpeg	File Added: screenshot_excluded_clouds.png
2009-12-11 17:34	rob	Note Added: 0000360
2009-12-24 01:32	jpeg	Note Added: 0000537
2009-12-24 01:32	jpeg	Priority	normal => high
2009-12-24 01:32	jpeg	Status	new => acknowledged
2009-12-24 01:34	jpeg	Summary	Please remove autoexclusion after dangerous clouds disappear => Don't add autoexclusions for temporary clouds (spells, natural clouds, ...)
2009-12-24 13:47	dpeg	Note Added: 0000556
2010-01-12 20:30	jpeg	Note Added: 0001064
2010-01-26 00:14	jpeg	Note Added: 0001632
2010-01-26 00:14	jpeg	Status	acknowledged => resolved
2010-01-26 00:14	jpeg	Fixed in Branch	=> 0.6 development branch
2010-01-26 00:14	jpeg	Resolution	open => done
2010-01-26 00:14	jpeg	Assigned To	=> jpeg
2010-01-26 00:14	jpeg	Status	resolved => closed
2010-02-09 17:12	dpeg	Note Added: 0002314
2010-02-09 17:14	dpeg	Assigned To	jpeg =>
2010-02-09 17:14	dpeg	Status	closed => feedback
2010-02-09 17:14	dpeg	Resolution	done => reopened
2010-02-09 17:19	tinyrodent	Note Added: 0002315
2010-02-09 18:21	jpeg	Relationship added	related to 0000400
2010-02-09 18:24	jpeg	Note Added: 0002319
2010-02-09 18:37	tinyrodent	Note Added: 0002321
2010-02-10 00:11	Nobody	Note Added: 0002331
2010-02-10 00:46	due	Note Added: 0002334
2010-02-18 02:53	OG17	File Added: steamtemple.png
2010-02-18 02:55	OG17	Note Added: 0002680
2010-02-18 02:58	OG17	File Added: steamtempleautoexclusions.png
2010-02-18 20:53	jpeg	Note Added: 0002702
2010-02-20 22:08	jpeg	Relationship added	related to 0000808
2010-09-12 15:27	rob	Note Added: 0008481
2010-09-12 15:27	rob	Status	feedback => resolved
2010-09-12 15:27	rob	Resolution	reopened => done
2010-09-12 15:27	rob	Assigned To	=> rob
2011-01-04 10:20	absolutego	File Added: steamtemple-new.png
2011-01-04 10:27	absolutego	Note Added: 0010184
2011-04-14 12:11	jpeg	Note Added: 0012518
2011-04-14 12:11	jpeg	Status	resolved => closed
2011-04-14 12:11	jpeg	Fixed in Branch	0.6 old branch => 0.8 prerelease branch

Notes
(0000360) rob (developer) 2009-12-11 17:34	Rather, these clouds shouldn't cause exclusions. I think the exclusions are just meant for the ones caused by fog machines.

(0000537) jpeg (manager) 2009-12-24 01:32	I recently saw that even the steam generated over lava (or was it water?) generated autoexclusions (that, naturally, didn't clear) which had the result that at some point the entire body of liquid was excluded and kept re-excluding itself! (I also encountered one of those flame thrower vaults where the exclusions actually were useful, but with them popping up everywhere I feel they are more of an interface annoyance than helpful.)

(0000556) dpeg (administrator) 2009-12-24 13:47	Autoexclusions from steam is bad. Autoexclusions from the flame thrower vaults is good -- this is exactly what we want them for, after all!

(0001064) jpeg (manager) 2010-01-12 20:30	Spell miscasts and Xom effects no longer create exclusions. I've seen the exclusion-creating steaming lake again but that might be using a fog generator and is apparently buggy in itself (see BR 400).

(0001632) jpeg (manager) 2010-01-26 00:14	Appears to be fixed, except for the buggy lake, which is handled elsewhere.

(0002314) dpeg (administrator) 2010-02-09 17:12	Reopening.

(0002315) tinyrodent (reporter) 2010-02-09 17:19	Still reproducible in 0.6.0-a1-3221-g3b7463e The scenario I encountered is a temple entrance surrounded mostly by shallow water but with a couple of lava. It makes a lot of steam cloud exclusions which are quite annoying as mentioned. But especially for this character which has rF++, the steam has no effect anyway.

(0002319) jpeg (manager) 2010-02-09 18:24	Apparently, the lake is a geyser minivault and the steam intentional, so please comment over at Mantis issue 400. I didn't find the steam to be dangerous myself (even without rF) and I don't think there's any way for exclusions to take into account temporary resistances. @dpeg: Any reasons for reopening this? puzzled

(0002321) tinyrodent (reporter) 2010-02-09 18:37	I asked for the issue to be reopened because the auto exclusions are still a problem. Maybe none should be added for steam under any circumstances.

(0002331) Nobody (reporter) 2010-02-10 00:11	I second that. A potentially better solution would be to only place exclusions for tiles that regularly produce "stationary" clouds (e.g., flame clouds around the Vehumet overflow altar, ice clouds created in the "hallway of death" pseudovault, et cetera). And it'd have to be coded as to not place an exclusion for clouds created on that tile by other forces, like players with Conjure Flame. But the other cloud types like steam (and maybe throw in the flame cloud from Trog's book altar, since that's a one-time thing) would be handled the same way as temporary dangerous terrain created by the player. Or would that be a bit too spoiler-ish?

(0002334) due (developer) 2010-02-10 00:46	I noticed that oddness on the Trog book altar the other day; I'm pretty sure that there's a way of marking a cloud with a specific kill category in order to make it not make autoexclusions, but I haven't had time to look into it yet.

(0002680) OG17 (reporter) 2010-02-18 02:55	I think I stumbled across the temple entrance Tinyrodent mentioned; the staircase itself is excluded, which is going to be a fantastic irritation when using the place as a stash. I'm putting an image of it up, hoping it'll be disabled until clouds are working better.

(0002702) jpeg (manager) 2010-02-18 20:53	Steam clouds are now specialcased to not exclude adjacent cells, as all other potentially harmful clouds do. This doesn't actually solve the problem (I doubt we'll find a solution before 0.6 is released), but does greatly reduce the number of excluded cells.

(0008481) rob (developer) 2010-09-12 15:27	temporary clouds don't seem to get exclusions anymore since quite a while, and if steam is special-cased but not entirely excluded, that seems to be intentional

(0010184) absolutego (reporter) 2011-01-04 10:27	i just encountered the steam-around-temple-staircase issue (0.8, put up an image for reference), which kills autotravel until you remove all the exclusions. i'm not sure what i'd do about it, but maybe removing that particular layout would be advised?

(0012518) jpeg (manager) 2011-04-14 12:11	The steam in the temple entry has been replaced with mist, which doesn't interrupt travel.